McRee, voice over: He rode into town promising to save us from “politics as usual.” Eighteen months later, his approval rating has plummeted and sacramento is again stuck in gridlock. His critics say he turned away from the political center. They say he beat up the nurses, abandoned gays, and defended the border-patrolling minutemen. Did the governor veer off to the right? Or did the unions and Democrats - like Speaker Núñez - run him off the road? And, with our sixth statewide election in four years, why are we again being asked to do the work of a full-time legislature and an action-hero governor?
McRee, on camera: Okay, you wanted him? We’ve got him. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger explains why he wants this special election so badly. I’m Lisa McRee and that’s next on California Connected: “Special Interest.”
McRee, on camera: As the clock ticks down toward another special election, we sit down with the two men who probably know more about it and why we’re having it than anyone else. Speaker of the Assembly Fabian Núñez and the Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.
McRee: Governor, you promised us that you’d save us from politics as usual and this last legislative session was textbook gridlock.
Schwarzenegger: Well, it takes two to tango. And uh.., you know that’s uh.. — I think we made great progress. I meant, that’s uh.., I think that umm.. it would be unfair to start out the interview with a negative tone, because I’m very proud of what we have accomplished, Democrats and Republicans alike.
McRee, voice over: And, this year, what the governor has accomplished with the legislature he’s done with the help - or hindrance - of this democrat, Fabian Núñez, the Speaker of the State Assembly…
Lisa Mcree: Can we say the honeymoon is over between you and the governor?
Núñez: we have some pretty big, uh, differences right now, philosophical. I think that, uh, we have a very divisive special election and, uh, and voters, in November, are gonna set all of us straight. Uh, this election is gonna be critical, because it’s gonna put California on the path that it needs to be on. My view is that the governor’s Hummer, uh, started in the center and it’s veered off to, to the right quite a bit. In fact, I think it’s on an off ramp, lost somewhere, uh, within the political ideology of Republican Party.
McRee: In fact governor when you did take office at the beginning of your term, you made some bold and unpredictable choices, you were lauded on both sides of the aisle, your appointments really thinking outside the box in terms of getting the education coalition to sit down and think of a way to help us out of the fiscal crisis. everyone agrees that without you there would not have been the workers comp reform. Do you understand why -
Schwarzenegger: Well go on. Without you, without me there wouldn’t have been the 400,000 of jobs. We have turned the economy around and now the important thing is reform. In order to rebuild California.
McRee: [OVERLAPPING] So what happened?
Schwarzenegger: What happened? I don’t know what you’re talking about…
McRee: Do you understand why moderates and even people who voted for you… think that you flipped to the right? Where’s the criticism coming from?
Schwarzenegger: Do you believe that?
McRee: Who’s fault is it?
Schwarzenegger: No, but do you believe that?
McRee: Well I do think that..
Schwarzenegger: Or do, or do you buy into the $100 million…
McRee: I do think that…
Schwarzenegger: Well let me ask you, do you buy into the $100 million negative campaign, where the other side wants to paint me to the right? Or do you go and judge reality? Do you think that I moved to the right when I have appointed out of 50 judges and only half of them were Republicans? Is that going to the right?
McRee: [OVERLAPPING] You’ve absolutely…
Schwarzenegger: Thank you I rest my case. Do you think it’s going to the right put aside the the… Sierra Nevada Conservancy, the largest land uhh.. in the history, putting it aside to protect it?
Do you think it’s going to the right to fight of Solar Roof Inititiaves and for $100 million solar roofs. Even the LA Times did a story on that Schwarzenegger is not to the right, I mean and that says a lot may I remind. They said I’m in the center.
McRee: Speaker, let’s talk about the legislative session.
Núñez: Okay.
McRee: Your kids get report cards.
Núñez: Yeah.
McRee: What would your report card be for this last year?
Núñez: But I think what we deserve, uh, all of us collectively, I think we deserved a C-plus, a C-plus, and I’ll tell you why. Even though the governor has been traveling up and down the state, saying that the legislature’s out of touch and he actually agreed with us 76 percent of the time, because he voted and signed 76 percent of our bills in this legislative session.
McRee: So then how can you say he’s moved so far in the right?
Núñez: He has.
McRee: — that, that, [OVERLAPPING] but yet–
Núñez: [OVERLAPPING] [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
McRee: — given you 76 percent of what you wanted with the pen?
Núñez: Well, but, but the 76 percent are, are some of the things that we were able to accomplish in the big picture. The more important issues, he did not sign.
McRee: [GAP] Sounds like you want everything.
Núñez: Well, no. [EDIT] The most important bills that we delivered the governor, he vetoed.
McRee: When this first, guy first got to sa- Sacramento, there was a record being built that was more moderate than any that we’ve seen in a long, long time.
Núñez: Hmm.
McRee: Why did you guys turn on him?
Núñez: Well, we didn’t turn on him. The governor turned on California.
McRee: What was the turning point?
Núñez: [OVERLAPPING] Uh, well, well, let me tell you. We negotiated the budget. We negotiated a workers comp agreement, uh, working side by side with the governor and an, uh, in bipartisan fashion.
And then in the fall of last year, what the governor did is he decided to take us all on and make as the enemy, called us girly men. He said that, uh, you know, where he was gonna kick our butts. And then in January, he had that famous State of the State address where he took on teachers, firefighters, nurses and everybody, uh, who was a public servant in California, including peace officers and firefighters. and that’s when we thought, wait a minute, enough is enough.
McRee: Don’t you also, like when a marriage goes wrong, bear half the responsibility?
Núñez: Well, everybody has to bear part of the responsibility when you’re in a marriage. But when you’re in an abusive relationship, then that’s a different story.
I think the governor was on the right path, except that the Republican Party decided that it was more advantageous for them to have the governor move to the right than it was for the party to shift its politics to accommodate the politics of Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.
I firmly believe that the governor is not a right wing extremist. I don’t think the governor is an- is an an- anti-democrat. I don’t think that he’s an ideologue. But the ideologues in the party are taking advantage of the governor. And I firmly believe that.
McRee: Governor, the polls say that the people don’t want this election. How do you make them change their minds?
Schwarzenegger: Do you think that the, when you listen to this campaign, the anti-campaign, the anti-election campaign, that it doesn’t influence the people? If you were to spend $100 million against Mother Teresa, her poll numbers would go down, too. I mean it’s just the way it is.
Schwarzenegger: I have tried to work together with them. But you know something?
“Even though when we almost came to an agreement, to a bi-partisan agreement, to a compromise agreement to go to the special election together, they couldn’t do it. You know why not? Not because it was not right, but because the union bosses of the public employees unions said “no.”
McRee: The governor told us that you almost had an agreement worked out, though, that could’ve worked all those initiatives out, could’ve done it together, without the $50 million special election, and the union party bosses told you no, and that they believed, with $100 million to hurl at the governor, that they could seriously damage him and it could be a winner take all game.
Núñez: “You know, I, I will tell you this, uh. What is true about the statement you just made, Lisa, is that the governor and I came very, very close to crafting an agreement on all of the governor’s reforms, or so-called reforms. We came very, very close. The problem was that when we came to the very, very end of this agreement, and obviously there’s no question that the unions didn’t want it, but neither did the Chamber of Commerce.
The people on the left didn’t want it, but the people on the right didn’t want this agreement either. I give him a lot of credit for coming to the table for, uh, putting his best effort forward to try and get a deal crafted.
Núñez: “I think when you look at it in the big picture, we made some very, very serious mistakes by not working together to address and a lot of the issues that are contained in these initiatives.
McRee: Everyone knows they have spent millions trying to damage you in the last year and a half. But do you think that you also… met them half way let’s say with pulling some your reforms. You yourself pulled pension reform because there was uhh… some wording in it that was ambiguous, that could have been challenged, it set you up to be attacked by teachers and firefighters and the whole widows and orphans thing. The teacher merit pay never really got finished up and the redistricting… the plan that you’re using is the one Ted Costa used instead of having one drafted by your own office. If you’re going to go to the mat and you’re going to risk your personal and political popularity, which was enormous at that time, should’ve you made sure that those propositions were so carefully crafted, that they could’ve taken a beating and still been successful?
Schwarzenegger: I’ve been very, very happy with the work my team has done, the legal team, the political team, my policy team. The other side has tried to derail us from the beginning to the end, filed lawsuits, tried to take us off the ballot, tried to intimidate the signature gatherers. They did everything they could, but the bottom line is, we are succeeding. The momentum is on our side.
McRee: Why not retrench though when some of the things were dropped from the ballot and you only had three of your own initiatives still hanging on. Why not just save it til the June ‘06 primary, save the taxpayers 50 million dollars, and retrench and kind of get the act together and go back out there…
Schwarzenegger: [OVERLAPPING] Let me ask you a question.
McRee continues: with the guns loaded?
Schwarzenegger: Let me ask you a question. First of all our guns are loaded, don’t worry about that. Uhh… If you break your arm now, let’s say you walk out here and you have one of these crazy things, where you…
McRee: You’re not going to do it to me are you are ya?
Schwarzenegger: …just fall, you break your arm. Would you wait until your next physical, or would you go to the hospital right away and get it fixed?
McRee: You say we have to do this now?
Schwarzenegger: No, just answer the question. I’m asking you a question…
McRee: Absolutely, I’d go and get it fixed.
Schwarzenegger: And the interview you’re going… you’d get it fixed right now, right? Okay, we have a broken system. We know it, that we’re spending more money than we take in .
Everyone knows, Democrats and Republicans will tell you it’s a broken system. So therefore I say let’s not wait. Let’s fix it now. And we’re talking here about 50 million dollars. It’s a buck and a quarter per person. For a buck and a quarter per person, there’s someone that are screaming and saying it’s too much money, it’s a waste of money. I say it’s a waste of democracy.. not to have the election.
McRee: I’ve got to give you the theory that’s, that’s out there among people who really know this stuff, that leaves a very bad taste in the mouth, which is once the governor made those missteps in the fall and labor unions started spending money —
Núñez: Mm-hmm.
McRee: — to damage him, —
Núñez: Mm.
McRee: — you were so confident, the Democratic Party was so confident that they had bruised him enough that they didn’t feel like they had to deal
Núñez: I feel that our relationship, the Legislature, with the governor, has been a pretty good relationship.
When his, he, his polling numbers were, what, in the thirties, uh, maybe 38, 39 percent, I was in his office and at his home, trying to negotiate an agreement with him.
McRee: You don’t look at his polls?
Núñez: We all look at everybody’s polls. But we have nothing to brag about. We’ve got a lot of work to do. Uh, to, to –
McRee: You’re down there with him [OVERLAPPING] in those numbers.
Núñez: [OVERLAPPING] We’re, we’re right there with him.
Núñez: You should.
McRee: But you’ve got to tell me, honestly, –
Núñez: [OVERLAPPING] Uh, this whole conversation has been honest.
McRee: — [OVERLAPPING] do you believe, do you believe, really, that when the governor started getting hammered about the widows and orphans thing by the unions, that that was deserved
Núñez: I don’t know. I, I, I, I mean, honestly, Lisa, [OVERLAPPING] I can tell you –
McRee: [OVERLAPPING] You know the guy. At the end of the day, do I believe that the governor, uh, wrote those initiatives? I don’t think he wrote ‘em. Were they ill-written or was he ill-advised? There’s no question in my mind, uh, that this governor was led down the wrong path by his advisors. But he has to take responsibility for his actions. Just like I have to take full responsibility for mine. That’s the, that’s the profession we have chosen, is politics.
McRee: Teacher Tenure, Prop. 74… umm.. still could pass, doesn’t seem to have caught fire with people, as I think your office probably thought it would. The unions believe that they have so damaged you in the last few months, that all they have to say to defeat a policy, is say that you’re for the policy. Does that worry you?
Schwarzenegger: Absolutely not. Do I look worried? Most likely not. Because I’m not. Here’s the reality. Ever since we put this on the ballot, Proposition 74 teachers tenure, was way ahead in the polls right now. Proposition 75 is way ahead in the polls right now. So the.. the momentum is on our side.
McRee: Prop 76, state spending and school funding initiative. Democrats say it’s a power grab. Because you can declare a fiscal emergency and cut what you want. What do you say?
Schwarzenegger: would say ludicrous to say it is a power-grab, as you can see that any time you make any change the word that they always use is power grab. You want to reorganize the the.. energy system - power grab, you want to redo education - power grab, you want to redo the budget system - power grab
If we see after we have negotiated the budget, two months later if we see that all of a sudden our spending is going up and our revenues are going down shouldn’t we catch it right there and say let’s make the adjustment?
Or should we wait now an entire year and do we ring up another four, five billion dollars of deficit and then fix it? No.
McRee: for those who haven’t read their voter guide yet, and I’m sure they will any second now, Prop 76 is [OVERLAPPING] state spending and school funding initiative.
Núñez: [OVERLAPPING] Right. Mm-hmm.
McRee: And what it does is it, it gives the governor broad powers with a big red pen if you guys don’t work out a deal after 45 days, uh, which does require two-thirds vote, which is very difficult to get.
Núñez: Mm-hmm.
McRee: And attached in that bill is a tweak to Prop 98
Núñez: The modification that the governor wants to Prop 98 is downward, not upward.
Why would anybody in their right mind think that in California, where per pupil standing is concerned, we’re 43 out of 50 in comparison to the other states, that you want such a conservative, budgeting policy that you’re willing to make across the board cuts that would disproportionately impact education adversely.
Núñez: So it’s gonna go down in flames. And I hope it’s a lesson to my friends on the Republican side of the aisle
Schwarzenegger: Well that’s absolutely incorrect. But I understand that the other side is painting it this way. It does not cut into education at all. As the California Taxpayers Assn. has come out and said, and studied very carefully, it actually adds to education funding and on top of that, it creates stability in education funding,
McRee: Do you worry, that by putting these two initiatives, these two thoughts in one initiative basically, that you risk losing them both? Because people might agree with the budget but.. and the state spending plan, but be scared by the education thing.
Schwarzenegger: I believe very strongly that when the people vote for something, for an initiative that is it only the people that can undo it. It’s that simple. I don’t allow and I will never sign anything where the legislators undo something that the people have voted for and this is what I’m fighting for and this also.. and that’s why we are going back to the people, with Proposition 76 and include Proposition 98,
We do it all the time with any law. Do you know the amount of bills every year where they say let’s clean up the language here, and let’s make the adjustment and can you sign here? Of course we do it because you notice a year later, two years later five years later, that things don’t work quite… as well as you thought it would.
McRee: Redistricting. It’s pretty easy to see that the system doesn’t work well. All of the seats are safe seats. It’s uh really easy to elect extremists, it’s darn near impossible to elect anyone who’s a moderate. Why don’t the voters seem to care?
Schwarzenegger: . Most people don’t know that it was politicians that have drawn the district lines a few years ago after the 2000 census and that the politicians drew the district lines to protect themselves. To protect the incumbents. Democrats and Republicans alike.
Out of 153 congressional and legislative seats the last election as you remember… none of them changed party, none of them. So the system doesn’t work so let’s fix it.
McRee: Prop 77.
Núñez: Yeah.
McRee: Why shouldn’t everyone supports the governor’s redistricting plan?
Núñez: I don’t have a problem with if we’re going to allow an independent commission to draw these district boundaries.
McRee: You don’t believe judges are independent?
Núñez: if you’re gonna take away the power to draw these district legislative boundaries, uh, take it away from the politicians, I agree with that. I’ve said that publicly. I’m on the record saying that. But what I don’t support is taking it from one political body and giving it to another political body.
Judges are just as political as elected officials. I think — I, I’ve heard someone say one day, um, you know, what’s the definition of a judge? A lawyer who has a good friend that’s a politician. [LAUGHS]
McRee: Some people say this is all about Prop. 75, which could permanently dent the ability of Democrats to pull in political money from unions. Is that the real reason that we’re actually going to the polls on these reforms now?
Schwarzenegger: Proposition 75 happens to fall into this category of reforming the system. The workers of uh.. our government are not protected. Their money’s being taken out their paycheck and it’s being used for campaigns without their permission. So what we’re saying is, “Continue paying. Continue giving to the campaigns. Continue doing everything you want. Continue for the unions to take money from them. But get written permission.”
So all of a sudden they say, “Wait a minute, they’re silencing us!” How are we silencing anyone when all you need is a written permission? as much as you should give a written permission if someone wants to take money out of your wallet, or out of your check, out of your bank, or anywhere else. So you should get.. give written permission. So that’s what we’re saying.
Núñez: I don’t think that it’s fair to say to one interest that it’s outspent 24 to one by corporations, that you ought not have the right to have a place at the table, uh, in the legislative process, while corporate America continues to have undue influence. I think that’s unfair. And, and, and fundamentally flawed. And I think Californians will understand that when they read their pa- their voter pamphlets.
McRee: according to the Secretary of State’s own Web site, last year labor unions plus public employee unions plus the Californa Teachers Association totally spent 29 million dollars to lobby in Sacramento. And business from manufacturing and real estate to pharmaceuticals to agriculture… and… several others spent 224 million dollars… corporations spent more than seven times what unions spent lobbying in Sacramento and that doesn’t even include the Indian tribes. Would you approve something to… to balance that? To make it a fair fight?
Schwarzenegger: Absolutely. That’s why I’ve said over and over that it’s not fair this year… that the unions are spending a hundred million dollars plus on this campaign. And we only had fifty million dollars. You’re right, it’s unfair. And this is why.
McRee: I didn’t say it —
Schwarzenegger: No, no —
McRee: I mean, what I am saying is there’s no balance anywhere —
Schwarzenegger: No, of course, that’s what I’m saying. That we only have fifty million…
McRee: [OVERLAPPING] But no balance on the corporate side too.
Schwarzenegger: But the campaign we are on right now is… See I cannot solve the world’s problems.
McRee: And again, we understand unions have spent a lot of money but again corporations spend seven times more than all those labor organizations together lobbying in Sacramento so there has to be a bigger solution… correct?
Schwarzenegger: This is, but this election is not about this issue. This election is about
McRee: Would you support any sort of counter measure?
Schwarzenegger: Absolutely.
McRee: That establishes the same limits on business and corporations…
Schwarzenegger: Absolutely.
Schwarzenegger: Here’s the important thing, I mean, think about this. The League of Cities endorsed our initiatives. Then you have Common Cause, which is the most liberal organization, endorsed Proposition 77. Then you have Senator McCain come out there, and endorse all of the initiatives. And the list goes on and on and on.
Why? Because they know that it benefits everyone if you’re fiscally responsible. We can put money aside to build the infrastructure that we need so badly. Look, we don’t have enough money to build the schools, we don’t have enough money to build hospitals uh…, emergency rooms, highways, freeways, bridges. We need more energy; we need to make sure we have the cleanest environment, while our economy is booming. We need more water, we need more of everything.
And more affordable housing which is the biggest problem of all.
McRee: Governor, you can’t get any of those things done without getting cooperation from the left, and from the right, in Sacramento. Getting them to sit down - that would be politics unusual, and I think what the voters of California really want. How do you re-establish yourself as that maverick? That independent-minded maverick who could get people to cooperate with each other?
Schwarzenegger: First of all, uh, I think Senator Peratta and Speaker Núñez… I’ve told them and I’m looking forward to working with them. We’re gonna work together. Whatever the outcome is, we’re gonna work together; because we know, that the most you can accomplish is when Democrats and Republicans work together.
Núñez: Absolutely. There’s no, uh, uh, question that after this election, and I’ve said to the governor, win, lose or draw, uh, let’s, let’s get back on our feet and let’s work on things that really matter to California. Let’s focus on transportation infrastructure. Let’s focus on improving, uh, the quality of education. Let’s focus on healthcare and making it accessible to all children. Uh, let’s focus on a new minimum wage bill.
McRee: I hate to ask again, but, again, why couldn’t you guys have just done it first –
Núñez: We —
McRee: — and kept goin’?
Núñez: We tried. We tried. Um, but, you know, this is, uh, in, in the business of politics, uh, logic doesn’t always, uh, dictate results.
Q: Why should teachers have almost instant tenure? You don’t have tenure. I don’t have tenure. H- Nobody else in California hardly has [OVERLAPPING] tenure.
Núñez: [OVERLAPPING] I thought everyone that works for California Connected has tenure.
Q: [LAUGHS] Uh, yeah. Well –
Núñez: Well, I need to have a conversation with those folks. [LAUGHS]
McRee: Just really quickly, since Brian Lord represents you and Warren Beatty and CAA also represents Rob Reiner, and I think Rick NIcita. How uncomfortable is the Christmas party at CAA these days? (laughs)
Schwarzenegger: We have all of them at our Christmas party, Warren Beatty, and we have Rob Reiner, we have John Kerry, we have everybody. I mean, Warren Beatty and I, we are good friends. I respect, uh, you know, Warren’s point of view, the.. to let him go out and talk, and I mean, you know, I think that John Burton set him up for all this stuff. And then, (laughs) then, Rob Reiner does a great job, he’s a great public servant in helping children also. I have no problem with any of that.
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